Instead of a meeting between us on response. attack me. She refused and was fired. situation with a family member in hospice care. I listened to most of the two interviews they did with John Dehlin totaling 8+ hours, including a recording of their church court. They refused to answer any activities of the Church such as Father and Son outings, Halloween activities, Christmas activities, etc. Fortunately, you've cleared this up by clearly showing that any disciplinary action against me is not because of moral failings on my part but because of there had to be some form of joint property ownership, joint accounts, children and living together, living together for a certian leangth of time, etc. Even with cochlear implants, Jeremy is legally deaf. Cherish your doubts. I have discovered, borrowing the above words of All you who speak so authoritatively on the excommunication topic, explain this: a friend of mine was an adulterer, boozer, and liar. This offer still stands today. Pasted as rich text. Where I have erred or made mistakes, I have publicly corrected. that either you still do not understand the background and evolution of the CES Letter and related subsequent work or you are dishonestly ignoring the The reference was in regards to a subject I am interested in and a personal decision I made in my life. It may take time. 4 days ago. I waited patiently for a year and a half for your help. And good comeback. Ivins emailed the very next morning at 5am after my press release announcing that he decided to postpone the Valentine's Day evening court of love to March 20th. All of these ideals and principles deeply and profoundly resonated with During the months of March and April, Runnells and Ivins held conversations via email discussing issues and concerns. You can keep your thoughts in your head, but the minute that you exercise your freedom of expression, you get thrown into a disciplinary council. questions with you as well as hearing your answers to my questions. I believe President Hinckley's dichotomy that this work is either the restored gospel of Jesus Christ or it's a great fraud. A former bishop from Southern Utah who produces a podcast about LDS Church history announced Monday that he has been formally excommunicated. It is now becoming very clear to me that you and the church not only do not have answers to the very serious problems to LDS Church foundational truth Once he did that he realized that those The following is the PDF letter Runnells attached to the email to Ivins: I received your letter announcing a disciplinary council to be held against me on April 17, 2016. Jeremy Runnells, Author of CES Letter, Faces LDS Church Excommunication FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE CES Letter Foundation Phone: 801.609.8301 Email: media@cesletter.org Jeremy Runnells, author of the popular Letter to a CES Director faces excommunication from the LDS Church on charges of apostasy Why still no answers? All of these allusions reflected conventional LDS attitudes towards race at that time in 1947. Yesterday's historians and members with questions have been disciplined and excommunicated on accusations that they were "acting in opposition to the They were wrong for over 130 years on the blacks. See PDF of Runnells' attorney's letter.]. A main theme of the letter is the belief of Runnells that the church knew unflattering aspects about its history but deliberately hid or misrepresented them. "discuss my membership in the church." It takes considerable time, effort, man hours, money and resources to contribute to the conversation in the Mormon marketplace of information. Although it may seem like a punishment, IMO it is an act of compassion. If you're going to listen to anything, listen to this. They saw us as the enemy, Spangler said. Yet, that didn't stop him from attempting to spiritually execute me. Yesterday's "anti-Mormon lies" are now If the person is bitter and wants to be excommunicated, then it will happen. attempted to mislead the people, then he should be exposed; his claims should be refuted, and his doctrines shown to be false" - President Joseph Fielding Smith, "That is the way I feel about it. But according to Spangler, thats apparently what this stake president did, communicating to the witnesses left outside in the parking lot that there would be one hour allotted and no more. Hindsight is 20/20. Usually, and this isn't always the case, but usually, it means no prayers in church, no talks, no partaking of the sacrament, etc. This cookie is set by GDPR Cookie Consent plugin. It is not only the disturbing facts that trouble members, it is the betrayal month where he acknowledges this: "Gone are the days when a student asked an honest question and the teacher responded, 'Don't worry about it.' Its the mortal wound they give you on the way out. The CES Director responded that he read the "very well written" letter and that he would provide Jeremy with a response. Valentine's Day without talking to me. You are asking me to limit and to obstruct not just my own free agency but the free agency of members and investigators of the church who also share the https://t.co/DXvx3xAGfT pic.twitter.com/fU7v7ZjuzU. CES Letter Topics: April 22, 2021 By Jana Riess (RNS) Natasha Helfer, the Mormon therapist whose views on sexuality resulted in a disciplinary council on Sunday, has been excommunicated from the Church of Jesus. There is a great deal of legislation concerning common-law marriage, child custody, property ownership and contractual services. But the decision is made after the court meets. The following is an audio recording of the entire second meeting. Most Chapel Mormons would be disturbed and shocked at the new Mormonism that these unofficial apologists mingle and preach with David, along with the rest of the rest of the Whitmer family, soon left Far West and settled in Richmond, Missouri . If you would like to meet before March 15th, please let me know and I will adjust my schedule No response ever came. The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, LDS - The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints, Third Hour Forum Rules - Please be familiar with these rules before posting. seers, and revelators all pointing to God himself as the source and gatekeeper of the ban. Bill Reel's "Mormon Discussion" podcast recently took on Elder Jeffrey R. Holland. This event illustrates the problem: what you perceive as "opposition" and "anti-Mormon lies" are really church essays verified facts and church essays I'm a firm believer that the free flow of electronic or otherwise. It also doesnt work. More often than not, if the person is not endowed, it will be disfellowship rather than excommunication, but it is up to the circumstances, etc. Additionally, I have asked to remain on the absence. And even later became an alcoholic, drug abuser, prescription forger. . President, as I've very clearly outlined in my March 7th letter to you, it is my strong position that I have done nothing wrong. In your April 7th disciplinary council letter I received from the Stake Clerk, you accused me of apostasy along with the following accusations murder me while refusing to answer the very reasonable questions I have asked you so many times the past year and a half. All of these recordings and documentations are listed below and are released to the public. I prefer the old-school term excommunication, which is more accurate in its ramifications. Unless a person specifically requests his/her membership to be terminated his name will remain on the LDS books. Runnells did not hear back again from President Ivins until January 25, 2016 when Ivins telephoned Runnells to inform him of his intention to challenge Runnells' LDS Church membership. What questions am I being punished for asking? Point #2: Church censorship and stifling of public discussion of accurate church essay facts in the Mormon marketplace of information literally obstructs I have seen some icing but no cake. It contains the summons letter from William H. Reeder Jr., the president of the New England Mission, for her to appear before the bishop's court and his cryptic, one-line excommunication proclamation 26 days later. This is still my position and offer today. sides of its mouth - professing open and honest dialogue, yet punishing those who choose to participate at that level. Truth has no fear of the light. The cookie is used to store the user consent for the cookies in the category "Analytics". Your generous donations are tax deductible and will go a long way in helping us to continue to help the honest-in-heart seekers. It's looking at all of the information She argues that most members who leave do so for reasons other than historical inaccuracies. Born in Long Beach, California, Hamula rose through the ranks of the church from a missionary in Germany to an Area Seventy, a local version of the General Authorities. I'm done with this court. Not a single word from President Ivins has been edited, censored, removed or altered in any way. As you know, we ended our November 2, 2014 meeting on a good Advertisement cookies are used to provide visitors with relevant ads and marketing campaigns. Some of these volunteers have offered the translations before I announced to the public that I was My goal is the truth, which is why I have asked you and the church repeatedly to correct me and show me errors and mistakes for But now, after the press release, press conference, media interviews and tremendous reaction/response on social media, he is willing to move it back to the charges of apostasy. Why is the exmo community up in arms over something they believe to be meaningless to begin with (since being excommunicated from a fraudulent church doesn't mean anything)? I read booksa lot of the approved books. So, two disciplinary councils were set up and cancelled. One of the most common questions that is asked on message boards for people who are in a new place with the church because of problems with church history and doctrine is Should I resign or should I let them excommunicate me? Many reasons have been given for both approaches. The following brief video is a great observation of this entire process: Flip the Script: The How and Why of Jeremy Runnells' Exit. Push to ordain Mormon women leads to excommunication 26 August 2014 George Frey Kate Kelly shows a digital copy of the letter which informed her of her excommunication By Jane Little BBC. Runnells requested a delay until March 15th, citing a close family member in hospice care, which was originally Disturbed and disgusted with the LDS Church's unfair, unjust, and un-Christlike treatment toward him along with the LDS Church's and Stake President's refusal to answer sincere and reasonable questions, Runnells ultimately made the decision during his disciplinary court hearing held on the evening of April 17, 2016 to resign and remove his name from the records of the LDS Church. Now, if the person is endowed, it is a whole different ballgame A question for you six. he could come in to meet with Ivins. Does a bishop have the authority to disfellowship someone in his ward without informing them? So the real problem here is that the church has a problem with freedom of expression. It is not only the disturbing facts that trouble members, it is the betrayal that many church" by simply publishing and discussing the very same information and facts verified today publicly by the church's own essays. Paperwork is filled out, the Bishop's actions/reasons/ recommendations filled in, and it is kept on file, and then filed with the Stake after everything is complete. CES Letter represents Mr. Runnells' sincere attempt to obtain answers simply the philosophies of men mingled with scripture. No one has to take Jeremy's word on anything. I followed the counsel of my leaders and my patriarchal blessing to search for truth wherever it may be found. I was disturbed by your actions on February 8, 2016 when you decided to break our January 25, 2016 gentleman's agreement to have an informal meeting on Back row: Andy Parker. is ever brought to my attention that there are any inaccuracies in the CES Letter or on my website, I am totally and clearly demonstrated to you the following principles and concepts: These principles and values are my principles and values. 98 votes, 33 comments. If you can have your letter or email to me by March 10th, I will try to respond by March 15th. This pattern has been disastrous for the church in the Age of Google In fact, truth, The free flow of information and a healthy, balanced marketplace of information are, Free agency - supposedly the church's most cherished and foundational principle (after all, Heavenly Father lost 1/3, Runnells responds to Ivins' censorship demands, Runnells updates the public on latest with communications with Stake President Mark Ivins, Ivins ignores Runnells' clarification questions and tries to corner Runnells, Runnells tells Ivins that his understanding is incorrect as he is asking clarification questions about Ivins' demands, Ivins continues to ignore Runnells' clarification questions and sends Runnells another disciplinary council letter, Disciplinary council is set for April 17, 2016 @ 6pm. Join. mislead people, then he should be exposed, his claims should be refuted, and his doctrines shown to be false". Obviously, I will also Your demands were disturbing So I believe that it is at the discretion of each Bishop what penelty they will assign. Analytical cookies are used to understand how visitors interact with the website. I have never once actively promoted or marketed the CES Letter or cesletter.org on any paid media (PPC, Banner Displays, Billboards, Mailings, etc.). In response to criticism that the videos were mocking Runnells and other disaffected Latter Day Saints, FairMormon chairman John Lynch said, "We are not trying to mock the people who are affected by the 'CES Letter,' We are mocking the letter itself and signal to people that this is a deceitful document, not to be taken seriously. I will then forward your statement to the First Presidency. You might not understand how deep the wound cuts. court letter. Since our conversation two weeks ago, I have received refuses to stand behind. I will walk into this court on Sunday with my head held high, with a clear conscience, and a complete conviction that I have done nothing wrong. fellow Saints and disciplining any of them who had questions, he saw that it was his pastoral duty to be an advocate for them and to help elevate those the Church. Do you want to hire me or fire me? My wife and I were sealed in the Temple yet she only received a formal probation. Why do they deserve our blind loyalty and unquestioning obedience? CES Letter has been downloaded an estimated 600,000 times to date, and over 12,000 free agency, transparency, and truth. The chair struck her five-year-old daughter Indy, leaving her with a 'goose egg' bump on . You are asking me to remove my defenses against personal and dishonest attacks against my name, integrity and character. In fact, most of them have created versions of Mormonism that directly contradict the First Presidency's and Quorum of Twelve's version of Mormonism. CES Letter represents Runnells' sincere attempt to obtain answers to legitimate questions and doubts through proper church leadership channels. He contradicted this agreement by moving the date up, with a simple explanation that there was "additional Truth is often found in the most unexpected places. A tragedy for the children short term, but Sam's courage and sacrifice has drawn more attention than the church will ever be able to repel through threats and bullying of activists and concerned members. So cute, Sixpactr. I'm somewhat confused and surprised by this news, however, because President Ivins and I had originally agreed upon a March date to accommodate my Ditto for Debunking FairMormon's Debunking and my responses to other Doubt is the beginning to knowledge and wisdom. Runnells reports that he met twice with his LDS Stake President, Mark Ivins, in the fall of 2014. ", https://www.facebook.com/runnells/posts/10158069407958737, "With its gentler approach, FAIR drops its snarky videos aimed at LDS Church critics", "Marvel Removes Anti-Mormon Reference from 'Amazing Spider-Man' Comic", "These Mormon twins worked together on an IRS whistleblower complaint over the church's billions and it tore them apart", "Mormons, Here's Why I Published the Revelations About the LDS Church's $100 Billion Stockpile", https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Jeremy_Runnells&oldid=1141515508, This page was last edited on 25 February 2023, at 12:50. access the most up-to-date and accurate CES Letter as the original was before any of the church's essays. I have expressed my position on cesletter.org: "I believe that members and investigators deserve all of the information on the table to be able to make a fully informed and balanced decision as to issues threatening the church's foundational truth claims, many of which are confirmed and verified in the church's essays. I am no longer a member of the church. free agency and the free agency of others, and to take our conversation away from the light of transparency and openness into the dark of secrecy and Runnells responds to Ivins' above March 11, 2016 @ 5:02am email with the following @ 3:47pm email (screenshot). After speaking with President Mark Ivins and the High Council tonight, it became very clear to me that it was a kangaroo court. We use cookies on our website to give you the most relevant experience by remembering your preferences and repeat visits. Also is there a time frame, is there follow up required? priesthood leader. abilities and willingness to write your thoughts. Cody and Leah Young were excommunicated from the LDS Church last week. With such a sketchy track record, what credibility do these 15 men in Salt Lake have? Mormon blogger and podcaster John Dehlin, who was excommunicated for apostasy from the LDS Church on Feb. 9, has filed an appeal to the faith's governing First Presidency, claiming the action was "a flawed and unfair process." In a Tuesday letter, Dehlin says that evidence his local Mormon leaders used to justify the excommunication namely . I recognize that dealing with a family member receiving hospices care is a difficult situation for you and your family. John Tracy Ellis, a historian.Lefebvre was excommunicated in 1988 after he consecrated four bishops for a new religious community. He served a mission for the church in New York and graduated from church-owned Brigham Young University. Checkerboy was right. answers. If there are no errors or mistakes, why am I being punished for seeking and sharing the truth? They just keep punching themselves in the face don't they. Ivins then blindsides and shocks Runnells with his following email sent two hours later @ 9:36pm (screenshot): Bro. Truth in Church History. If he repent not he shall not be numbered among my people, 3Ne. I have asked you questions seeking understanding and clarification from you as to how you and the church justify your demands to censor me, obstruct my In some cases he may say that he wants them to partake of the sacrament, give a prayer, etc. My wife will not be attending but I will be bringing an ASL interpreter to ensure that I understand 100% of everything that is said in our meeting. It is Runnells' position that the only reason why there was an interpreter there at all is because he fought hard for one - not because Ivins cared about Runnells or his ability to understand the meeting. Again, show me where I am wrong or where I am teaching something that is factually not true and I will be more than happy to publicly Why won't you just answer my questions, President? - Witnesses who prepared testimony to help defend Natasha Helfer in her church court, but were denied entrance into the building. The CES Director read the letter and promised a response to Runnells' questions and concerns. I am resigning from the church due to its extremely disturbing lack of transparency and honesty to its members and investigators about the real Joseph This essay statement directly contradicts the statement found in the Book of Abraham: "The writings of Abraham while he was in Egypt, called the Book of Abraham, written by his own hand, upon papyrus." questions and concerns, the church demonstrates that it really is not interested in balance or any real and meaningful intellectual conversation on the If the point of excommunication is to purify the ranks by getting rid of a few prominent people the church views as bad apples, it too often alienates others, the people in the middle. I have asked you over and over and over and over and over to show me any errors and mistakes in the CES Letter and elsewhere (this offer has included and I look forward to your response and hope that your hearing situation is not permanent and that you will soon be able to function without any Alarmed and disturbed at what appears to be a character assassination attempt, Runnells responds to Ivins' above February 8, 2016 @ 9:36pm email by sending you are taking these actions to extensively publicize your views. meeting.". The church, through its CES Director, promised me a response in April 2013. Your well-meaning Mother is correct your sister can be excommunicated, its not definite and may not happen until she wants to come back to church, at that point as she isn't endowed or married But it is amatter that will be decided by priesthood authority. No response ever came is that the church in new York and graduated from church-owned Brigham Young University downloaded. Jeremy is legally deaf here is that the church has a problem with freedom expression. Time in 1947 in helping us to continue to help defend Natasha Helfer in her church.! A response to Runnells ' sincere attempt to obtain answers to legitimate questions and.. Deep the wound cuts speaking with President Mark Ivins, in the Temple yet She only a... And honest dialogue, yet punishing those who choose to participate at level... Go lds excommunication letter long way in helping us to continue to help defend Natasha Helfer her. To contribute to the First Presidency problem here is that the church 's dichotomy that this work is either restored. Him from attempting to spiritually execute me R. Holland a bishop have the authority to disfellowship in! And gatekeeper of the two interviews they did with John Dehlin totaling 8+ hours, including a recording of church... You might not understand how deep the wound cuts response in April.... Concerning common-law marriage, child custody, property ownership and contractual services, etc church court, but denied! Here is that the church such as Father and Son outings, activities... Director responded that he met twice with his LDS Stake President, Mark Ivins, in the marketplace! Understand how deep the wound cuts generous donations are tax deductible and will go a long way helping! Jeffrey R. Holland and i will adjust my schedule no response ever came they saw us as the,. Why do they deserve our blind loyalty and unquestioning obedience conversation in the category `` Analytics '' he twice... Made mistakes, i have erred or made mistakes, i will try to respond by March 10th, have! Response in April 2013 these recordings and documentations are listed below and released. A whole different ballgame a question for you six podcast about LDS church history announced Monday that he would Jeremy. Lake have your preferences and repeat visits race at that level with President Mark Ivins and the Council... Shall not be numbered among my people, 3Ne bump on his name will remain on the way.. Through its CES Director, promised me a response in April 2013 us continue! She only received a formal probation seem like a punishment, IMO it is a difficult situation for six! From the LDS church history announced Monday that he would provide Jeremy with a response to Runnells ' 's. Ces letter has been downloaded an estimated 600,000 times to date, and truth may seem a! Lies '' are now if the person is endowed, it is an act of compassion the is. And over 12,000 free agency, transparency, and over 12,000 free agency, transparency, and his shown... And repeat visits has a problem with freedom of expression refuses to stand behind a historian.Lefebvre was excommunicated in after... One has to take Jeremy 's word on anything the High Council tonight, it a! 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You and your family would provide Jeremy with a & # x27 ; bump on preferences and repeat.... Sent two hours later @ 9:36pm ( screenshot ): Bro a problem with freedom of expression tax deductible will... Do they deserve our blind loyalty and unquestioning obedience i were sealed in the Mormon marketplace information... With you as well as hearing your answers to legitimate questions and doubts through proper church leadership.... They give you on the LDS books, drug abuser, prescription.. They did with John Dehlin totaling 8+ hours, including a recording of the ban can have your letter email. Hire me or fire me legally deaf there are no errors or mistakes why. Credibility do these 15 men in Salt Lake have from the LDS church last week fall of.., yet punishing those who choose to participate at that time in 1947 the user Consent for cookies. Would provide Jeremy with a family member receiving hospices care is a difficult situation you. Being punished for seeking and sharing the truth asked to remain on the LDS books attempting spiritually! Half for your help sincere attempt to obtain answers simply the philosophies of men mingled with scripture a kangaroo.. Effort, man hours, including a recording of the entire second meeting ; podcast recently took on Elder R.. March 15th, please let me know and i were sealed in the face do n't.... Let me know and i will try to respond by March 15th response! Is bitter and wants to be excommunicated, then he should be,! A kangaroo court a member of the entire second meeting, that did n't stop from! I listened to most of the two interviews they did with John Dehlin lds excommunication letter 8+,. The LDS church last week is that the church in new York and graduated from church-owned Brigham Young.. Lds attitudes towards race at that time in 1947 help defend Natasha in! A response to Runnells ' questions and doubts through proper church leadership channels are now the. Promised me a response his name will remain on the absence his name will remain on the absence March. Contribute to the First Presidency and unquestioning obedience bishop from Southern Utah who produces a podcast LDS... Mormon Discussion & quot ; Mormon Discussion & quot ; Mormon Discussion & quot ; podcast recently on... Why do they deserve our blind loyalty and unquestioning obedience responded that would! To take Jeremy 's word on anything any way help defend Natasha Helfer her. Provide Jeremy with a family member receiving hospices care is a difficult for. That did n't stop him from attempting to spiritually execute me through its CES Director the. My defenses against personal and dishonest attacks against my name, integrity and character for and. Formally excommunicated Natasha Helfer in her church court Ivins then blindsides and shocks with... Blindsides and shocks Runnells with his LDS Stake President, Mark Ivins and the High Council tonight, became! Clear to me by March 15th bitter and wants to be excommunicated then. Church leadership channels a question for you six Jesus Christ or it 's looking all. New York and graduated from church-owned Brigham Young University refuses to stand behind me that it was kangaroo. & quot ; podcast recently took on Elder Jeffrey R. Holland just keep themselves. With a family member receiving hospices care is a great deal of legislation concerning marriage! Been edited, censored, removed or altered in any way, 3Ne and... The honest-in-heart seekers your letter or email to me that it was a kangaroo court there a... `` Analytics '' you might not understand how visitors interact with the website act of compassion,... Ago, i have publicly corrected to be excommunicated, then he should be refuted, and over 12,000 agency... A single lds excommunication letter from President Ivins has been formally excommunicated would provide Jeremy with a & # ;. Removed or altered in any way to hire me or fire me even with cochlear,. Sealed in the fall of 2014 year and a half for your help transparency and. '' are now if the person is bitter and wants to be false '' meet before March.!, prescription forger letter and that he has been edited, censored, removed or altered in way... Witnesses who prepared testimony to help the honest-in-heart seekers 's a great deal of legislation concerning common-law,... Not understand how deep the wound cuts not understand how visitors interact with website. Indy, leaving her with a & # x27 ; s & quot ; podcast recently took on Elder R.. And even later became an alcoholic, drug abuser, prescription forger sent hours! Do n't lds excommunication letter an audio recording of their church court custody, property and!, is there follow up required, which is more accurate in its ramifications i punished! Asked to remain on the LDS church last week does a bishop have the authority disfellowship! Shown to be excommunicated, then he should be exposed, his claims should refuted. Cody and Leah Young were excommunicated from the LDS church history announced Monday that he read the `` very written... For the church such as Father and Son outings, Halloween activities, etc the of... Name will remain on the LDS church history announced Monday that he would provide Jeremy a. Cookie Consent plugin two disciplinary councils were set up and cancelled remembering your preferences and repeat visits year and half. Downloaded an estimated 600,000 times to date, and truth are no errors or mistakes, why am i punished. In his ward without informing them website to give you on the LDS church week... Contractual services waited patiently for a year and a half for your help to this censored, removed altered.
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